Comments on: Facts on women in IT careers

By: Virtualization Blogger

Virtualization Blogger — Sun, 16 Sep 2012 21:39:01 +0000

I think more women should consider becoming virtualization engineers. Here’s a post I wrote providing guidance on what skills are needed: http://www.vminstall.com/the-cheaters-guide-to-help-women-start-a-career-in-virtualization/

By: Mark Guzdial

Mark Guzdial — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 20:53:38 +0000

Thanks for the explanation, Erik!

By: Erik Engbrecht

Erik Engbrecht — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:37:17 +0000

56% of women leave their current organization
49% of those who leave their current organization take on technical roles elsewhere (another company, independent contracting, startup, etc)
51% of those who leave are no longer in technical roles (assuming a non-technical role in the same company, assuming a non-technical role in another company, leaving the workforce, etc)

56% * 49% = 27.44% remaining in technical roles
56% * 51% = 28.56% no longer in technical roles

The 49% and 51% are subcategories of the original 56%, and are also further broken down.

I only skimmed the paper, but that section seemed focused on the causes attrition (and ways to avoid them) from the perspective of a supervisor or department manager. From that perspective, the vast majority of the time it doesn’t really matter if a person left to go work for your competitor or left to raise a family. What matters is that a hole has just been punched in your organization, and filling such holes is both expensive and risky.

By: Mark Guzdial

Mark Guzdial — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:48:28 +0000

Erik, I’m confused by your statement – not disagreeing, just not getting it. You said that 51% are leaving technical roles entirely. So how can only 28% be leaving technical career paths?

By: Erik Engbrecht

Erik Engbrecht — Sat, 28 Apr 2012 13:05:45 +0000

re: Leaving their “careers” versus leaving their “organizations”
The report seems to focus on women leaving their current organization, which includes both switching to a non-technical organization with the same employer and leaving their employer for a technical role at another company. If you look at pages 16 and 17 of the report[1], it shows that about half of those women are leaving technical roles entirely (51%) and about half are pursuing technical roles elsewhere (49%).

So really only about 28% are leaving the technical career path.

[1] http://www.ncwit.org/pdf/NCWIT_TheFacts_rev2010.pdf

By: Mark Guzdial

Mark Guzdial — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 17:22:15 +0000

You raise fair points, Max. It’s possible that the study wasn’t worded properly, and it could be that their categories are masking things we want to see happen. These are just one-liner facts, tidbits — certainly, I’m not presenting the whole story. I’ve heard talks on several of these studies, and I trust the researchers, but I don’t know enough of the details to assure you about the methodology. You’re welcome to follow up on the links provided to see if they did get it right or not.

By: Max Hailperin

Max Hailperin — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 14:09:40 +0000

But what were the people talking about who gathered the statistics you are quoting? (And if the gatherers didn’t word their questions clearly, what were the respondents talking about?) I would bet that “reach[ing] the executive level” counts as “a non-technical job” for a lot of people in a lot of cases.

You and I agree that there are real, important problems with how gender plays out in technology development. I just think it doesn’t help shed any light on those problems to point to mixed up statistics that blend together all sorts of different things. The sub-categories within the 56% are incredibly disparate from each other, and even within each one there is a lot of heterogeneity. “A non-technical job at a different company” could mean a part-time job as an instructor and sales-assistant at the local yarn shop. Or it could mean becoming the CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation.

By: Mark Guzdial

Mark Guzdial — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:55:36 +0000

In both cases, I'm talking about moving into technical management.

By: Max Hailperin

Max Hailperin — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:52:36 +0000

It seems like you are changing your argument midstream. If you are interested in paths into management, then 56% is still an inflated number, because it includes women who “take a non-technical job at a different company” or “take a non-technical job within the same company.” In fact, all of the women who are moving into management lie within the 56% (but so do other women who are not).

I’m not denying that the male/female comparison you are now linking to is disappointing — but that’s different from the number you originally quoted being disappointing.

By: Mark Guzdial

Mark Guzdial — Fri, 27 Apr 2012 13:41:39 +0000

From the perspective of having a diversity of women in upper-level, decision-making ranks of technical companies, yes, it's disappointing. The odds are nearly three times greater for a man to reach the executive level in an IT company than it is for a woman.